Is Insane Mode Possible?

Rayalot72

Maximum difficulty
Extremely Helpful Person
#1
1.1 I have beaten on insane.

1.2 I can't keep up with the slavemakers, and I ultimately lose since I can't harvest food quick enough with the rapid waves taking out most of my brood chambers.

2.1 I can't seem to get enough food by N1 to take on W3, with 6 crabs.

2.2 I have a lot of food troubles, as I can't seem to properly defend the aphids N1. I have ideas for using the underground for all my food, but other than that I struggle to get powerful enough fast enough.
 

Rayalot72

Maximum difficulty
Extremely Helpful Person
#3
I know, they don't provide enough food to give me a win though. I actually rely on them to beat hard.
 

MikeSlugDisco

Community Manager
Staff member
Community Manager
#6
It's been a good long while now and no-one has provided evidence of having finished 2.1 and 2.2 on insane. We may need to balance a little!
 

Rayalot72

Maximum difficulty
Extremely Helpful Person
#7
Do you guys have a way of seeing completions gamewide, or does a win need to be posted?

Has there been a 1.2 insane win? I'm quite curious as to how they did it...

2.2 seems like to may be possible, but it would require you to get as many lvl 3 maximum mortars as possible D2.

What qualifies as evidence? I'd like to provide it if I ever get the time to push through one (although I'm skeptical that, if get past the points I'm stuck on now, I'll lose at a later and more insurmountable point).
 
#8
I have beaten all 4 insane modes and the two challenges for 1.1 and 1.2

2.1 was the most fun I had so far it took quite a bit of trial and error but once you survive night two you should be strong enough to steamroll the beach and clear the entire level besides the bottom of tier 1 and 2 those beetles will take too much time. I used rapid fire for it.

2.2 i tried and failed for a few days but switched to the mortar ants and it is very easy. you will need to build up workers and swap between the beetles hidden in the back and the aphids until you have about 28 workers, have 14 on left 14 on right tell them to not attack the ladybugs, build a few roofer ants to survive the two waves and when night hits keep farming aphids for the few seconds they still produce food. afterwards abandon the outside and clear the inside and build up as many level 3 roofers as possible and get like 40-50 workers. After you cleared a decent amount of the underground clear the left and right sides before day comes. When day comes you can finish clearing underground and survive the attacks by swarming the entrance. The AOE of the roofers makes it possible.

I very much enjoyed the difficulty and felt that it was unbeatable until I found a strategy that worked. I would definitely like more difficult levels they are very fun to play as you are forced to try and do better and faster to finally win.
 
#10
You beat insane mode on 2.1 and 2.2? I never got past night 1 on 2.1 with the 6 hermit crabs...

Any tips? I tried 15 workers with 3 level 3 mortars but the workers died too fast. I also tried a mass of workers and level 1 mortars, of an even split between mortars and warriors. Would rapidfire work better? Also, how did you get enough food?

I managed to beat insane 1.1, 1.2 and challenge modes for both confidently enough, but 2.1 is really difficult. :)
 

Rayalot72

Maximum difficulty
Extremely Helpful Person
#11
Stewster said:
2.1 was the most fun I had so far it took quite a bit of trial and error but once you survive night two you should be strong enough to steamroll the beach and clear the entire level besides the bottom of tier 1 and 2 those beetles will take too much time. I used rapid fire for it.
How much did you upgrade your ants? Apparently spamming lvl 1 rapid fire seems to be quite effective, but I'm unsure if it's optimal atm.

Did you use soldiers or workers as tanks?
 
#12
I managed to reach night 3 on 2.1 insane, only losing because I tried stopping the wolf spiders at the nest entrance to stop them running around. It's definitely possible to beat, now that I figured out the way to proceed. The trick is to get underground food asap.

Get 15 workers first priority to farm above ground on non-hostile mode, then get 5-8 rapidfire before you start killing underground beetles. Quickly get about 2 of the easiest nests before the first couple of crabs come, then fight a third beetle nest almost immediately after (make army stay near the queen and dig to the nest). The goal is to get a buffer of food and 1:1 ratio of rapidfire to workers as tanks. Once you survive the final wave of crabs, things are much easier as your numbers let you dominate the surface and even kill the beetles. I had about 60 workers and 60 rapidfires by night 3 before I lost.

Don't make my mistake, and keep your entire army around the queen at night.
 

Rayalot72

Maximum difficulty
Extremely Helpful Person
#13
The spiders had an easier time killing you when you confronted them? Interesting, I'm guessing there had to have been a ton of them, as I always considered that the optimal method of fighting them.

Are all 15 workers tanks, or is it about a half and half with an egg team?

I'll have to give this a good few attempts. If I manage to win it, I'll be back here to confirm that it's possible.

And then to struggle with the ever demanding 2.2. That one knows how to punish my inefficiency.
 
#14
in 2.1 i think i survive night 1 with 30 workers and 10-12 rapid fire roofer ants. you will probably have 6 when first 2 crabs come just only build roofers with all the food you get throughout the night.

What you do is as soon as your about to kill the first 2 hermit crabs break open one of the enemy areas inside the wall and let them walk to the queen while your other ants are harvesting the crabs. when the crabs are all eaten walk down kill the pests and let the ants re-engage when the next wave of hermit crabs come. I believe i had like 16 roofers lvl 1 maybe a couple level 2s all the rest was just spammed lvl 1 workers, probably 30-40. I failed every time i tried to do the warrior ants they seem too week until level 3 and don't beat out the cannon fodder 150 food of workers gets.

day 2 you should get to 32-36 roofers as many lvl 3 as you can get imo, i dont know the damage difference but the slow is EXTREMELY useful to kill the enemy ants that get in the way while foraging. i like to go straight to the bottom tier and kill the two beetles and empty out each tier as the tide comes in. the bottom sides can for the most part be ignored on higher tiers.

when the tide is about to come in for the last time ditch the outside and completely clear the underground if you hadnt already. build like 2-3 workers per roofer. night two i probably had 60+ workers 30~ roofers. night 3 i had probably 200+ ants in total mostly just workers. i think i did upgrade 30 or so workers to level 3 to survive the massive wave of hermit crabs after spiders.
 
#15
Redmoth27 said:
Hey Stewster how long have you been playing games?
Quite a while, I like the torture of unfair challenges like XCOM:LW on impossible ironman which i cant get very far in without alt-f4ing to save a soldier and then feeling like a cheater and deleting the save.
 

Rayalot72

Maximum difficulty
Extremely Helpful Person
#16
I did it mom!



I used a mix of Stewster's and Balantine's strategies, as well as my own standard N1 harvest strategy.

I started by making a large group near the bottom, and rushing them in when the two tiger beetles were away to get the nearest food (set to no combat). I established two groups of 7 workers for this that were in one pheromone with the starting workers, totaling at 21 by the end, with 4 in the nest to handle respawns and various building jobs. I then went for the food guarded by the ants on the second lowest, and upper levels, ending with the highest level's tiger beetle food, and the seeds south of the nest.

From here I made spitters and took on the larvae in the west, while one of my teams of 7 workers I upped to 10 and sent out to collect the food to the south where tiger beetles usually patrol (set to no combat), abusing the fact that the crabs are slow. I also dug a small tunnel around to the food storage, where the ants could use it while the crabs would go a different way (this way I had constant supply during an attack, while otherwise they'd get stuck on crabs and die; this saved me for the final wave).

I did the recommended strat, and as the second crab of wave 1 was dying I took on the group of enemies directly south of the nest.

I beat wave 3 with something like 20 combat workers and 14 rapid fire spitters. I also gradually expanded my non-combat workers to ensure I had a steady flow of tanks.

Spent the entire next day combining all harvesting groups and going out to collect all the food possible.

The N1 harvest team spend N2 collecting food from underground, as I opened those up between the waves of wolf spiders (excluding the last wave, which was too much of a risk).

Repeated the day strat, harvesting most of the beach and then losing 45 soldiers and 50 workers due to not anticipating the fast tide. I went conservative with my spending and bunkered down with something like 120 workers, including 13 in my down-time harvesting team, around 60 in my melee team, and around 50 in my nest team. I also had 70 soldiers, of which over 60 were spitters with something like 5 lvl 3 and 5 lvl 2, and about 5 warriors I made for kicks. The spiders can threaten worker counts, so I'd recommend setting any harvesting group you have off in a faraway chamber until mid-way through the battle, even if you already emptied the underground. They're also best fought underground where, if you build your nest well, many of them will be possible to fire upon from the queen, allowing you to gradually kill them off.

N3 wave 2 I still had a load of crabs around by the time of wave 3. The spiderlings also killed my framerate, as there's an enormous amount of them with 2 of the enormous mother spiders. No crash though, fortunately, but if you're likely to lag significantly I'd recommend preemptively placing the pheromone on the queen so that you don't need to move it during a lag-spike that prevents you from acting.
 
#17
Congrats, Rayalot. I managed to get my ass kicked by the wolf spiders on night three again. 90 workers gone in 10 seconds. I had only 30 spitters though, so maybe I just need more bodies to throw in hungering maws.

I'll try again tonight.
 

Rayalot72

Maximum difficulty
Extremely Helpful Person
#19
Balanite said:
Congrats, Rayalot. I managed to get my ass kicked by the wolf spiders on night three again. 90 workers gone in 10 seconds. I had only 30 spitters though, so maybe I just need more bodies to throw in hungering maws.

I'll try again tonight.
Yah, the balance needs to be so that you still have bodies, but you also have damage. 45 spitters was what won me it, as I was able to kill the spiders fast enough to prevent them from overwhelming me once they started pushing into my main force. Also make sure you have food for resupply, as that second wave of eggs can save a game.

EDIT: You fighting them outside or inside? There might actually be an advantage indoors since you're using rapid fire instead of mortars. Indoors, you get a chance to take them on a few at a time, which may be what you need to get the win.

Outside simply always seemed easier to me since you delay them, and mortars nuke them down super fast, but with insane those strategies aren't nearly as viable it would seem.
 

Rayalot72

Maximum difficulty
Extremely Helpful Person
#20
2.2 also out of the way!



2.1 was indeed far more difficult. This really just required that you started up well, harvesting the aphids with small teams right after getting the shrimp to the west, and then using the nest team to get the beetles in the back.

Not world first obviously, but these images should prove that it can be done for anyone that questions.

I quite like the balance of insane tbh. It's difficult to the point that it's practically impossible unless you can figure out the optimal strategy, making it a community achievement to be able to tell others how to do it.
 
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