What actually does the spray attack of the Devil's Coach Horse adults do?
Devil's Coach Horse Beetle Spray
- Thread starter Raptorofwar
- Start date
Confuses ants for a short while. When confused they don't attack and wander randomly. You'll notice small question marks above them when they're confused.
In reality I believe it's more a liquid but in the game a gas makes more sense for working out what it does.
curseheart
Larva
That stuff seems slightly overpowered. It think the game needs some balancing.
The meat shield upgrade for the fusca goes very well with the rufa.
Which is better overall? Mortar or rapid-fire?
Which is better overall? Mortar or rapid-fire?
I guess slowing is less useful, so mortars make sense. But then you have to group up enemies to get the maximum effect, so you need tanks. Leafcutters should help with that!
The rufa are powerful, but expensive. Then again, they're not so much more expensive than the fusca.
The rufa are powerful, but expensive. Then again, they're not so much more expensive than the fusca.
I'l just copy what I wrote in the beta section (well, about 50% of it):
[...]
To be clear: Formica rufa soldiers are very likely to be the ONLY ranged unit in the game worth mentioning (at least until termites get introduced).
There are a few other ants that also spray formic acid (like Camponotus ants) but none of them can do it at such a long range.
Most ants will be close combat or at least very short-ranged.
How do you plan on introducing Trap Jaws, Leafcutters and all the other cool ant species when essentially all you need in the game is a few tanky ants (Atta soldiers or Camponotus majors) to stall the enemy so the dozens of shooters behind them can wipe the floor with anything that gets bound by these tanks?
I've already seen how overpowered combinations of tanks and DPS creatures can be (go to 2.1 on medium/hard and attack a large hermit crab right before the morning dawn, you can easily loose multiple dozens of ants to a tiger beetle that just chops through them while they keep poking against the shell of the hermit crab) - this will be utterly gamebreaking.
F. rufa shooters should be support units, not main damage dealers.
- In the formicarium mode they can gain an ability that places a debuff on targets increasing the physical damage these take. THIS IS PERFECT. Reduce the poison damage and give them this ability for free.
- Some units can apply debuffs that confuse or stun the target. This might work as well - make enemies that get hit by rufa shots get stunned for 1 second with a cooldown of 5 seconds before the debuff can be applied again (this is for mortars, rapid fire ants could get a debuff that decreases the enemy's attack strength instead).
These simple changes will make the shooters a very viable support unit that can increase the soldier's effective damage and reduce the losses frontline units take. Their damage will be rather low so they won't nuke everything off the map (even if the mortars keep their AOE and can apply debuffs on multiple enemies this will not lead to hordes of enemies instantly getting bombed to zero HP).
The shooters new role will also lead to a different metagame - no more massive hordes of shooters but mostly soldiers with a few supporting shooters between them (because the debuffs do not stack so hordes of shooters are completely ineffective) - basically the gameplay we played and loved in the demo levels, the stuff people are actually expecting from the game.
[...]
To be clear: Formica rufa soldiers are very likely to be the ONLY ranged unit in the game worth mentioning (at least until termites get introduced).
There are a few other ants that also spray formic acid (like Camponotus ants) but none of them can do it at such a long range.
Most ants will be close combat or at least very short-ranged.
How do you plan on introducing Trap Jaws, Leafcutters and all the other cool ant species when essentially all you need in the game is a few tanky ants (Atta soldiers or Camponotus majors) to stall the enemy so the dozens of shooters behind them can wipe the floor with anything that gets bound by these tanks?
I've already seen how overpowered combinations of tanks and DPS creatures can be (go to 2.1 on medium/hard and attack a large hermit crab right before the morning dawn, you can easily loose multiple dozens of ants to a tiger beetle that just chops through them while they keep poking against the shell of the hermit crab) - this will be utterly gamebreaking.
F. rufa shooters should be support units, not main damage dealers.
- In the formicarium mode they can gain an ability that places a debuff on targets increasing the physical damage these take. THIS IS PERFECT. Reduce the poison damage and give them this ability for free.
- Some units can apply debuffs that confuse or stun the target. This might work as well - make enemies that get hit by rufa shots get stunned for 1 second with a cooldown of 5 seconds before the debuff can be applied again (this is for mortars, rapid fire ants could get a debuff that decreases the enemy's attack strength instead).
These simple changes will make the shooters a very viable support unit that can increase the soldier's effective damage and reduce the losses frontline units take. Their damage will be rather low so they won't nuke everything off the map (even if the mortars keep their AOE and can apply debuffs on multiple enemies this will not lead to hordes of enemies instantly getting bombed to zero HP).
The shooters new role will also lead to a different metagame - no more massive hordes of shooters but mostly soldiers with a few supporting shooters between them (because the debuffs do not stack so hordes of shooters are completely ineffective) - basically the gameplay we played and loved in the demo levels, the stuff people are actually expecting from the game.
rakuen0611
Larva
And that's why I disagree that the acid bombardiers are "op." Hermit crabs can tank just about all you can throw and it takes large numbers of bombardiers to effectively damage it. The buffs that the Ereptor-Rufa can get definitely helps, but it doesn't change basic strategy that numbers=strength. Same for Tiger Beetles. Stronger species of ants of course mitigate the issue with the front line, but I don't see a reason to nerf the F.Rufa or the F. Ereptor-Rufa. again, buffs don't change the true strategy of the game, overwhelming numbers. That is realistic.
rakuen0611
Larva
I would like to add that Rufa's acid can scare off enemies thousands of times bigger and more solid that the Devil's Coach Horse Beetle adult: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbyE2cNROkI
The problem isn't that the shooters in numbers are just good, the problem is that they do literally ALL the damage. The rufa shooters have more DPS than 10 melee ants. The only reason this isn't completely gamebreaking is the lack of actual tanky ants.
If you want to experience how utterly broken combinations of tank and high DPS units are play 2.1 and attack a large hermit crab just before morning dawn. The beach tiger beetle(s) will just mow through all the ants and kill several dozens of them while they are busy poking the hermit crab.
When larger ants like Atta or Camponotus get implemented this will become utterly gamebreaking. The tank + ranged area DPS combo will simply make all other ants obsolete.
If you want to experience how utterly broken combinations of tank and high DPS units are play 2.1 and attack a large hermit crab just before morning dawn. The beach tiger beetle(s) will just mow through all the ants and kill several dozens of them while they are busy poking the hermit crab.
When larger ants like Atta or Camponotus get implemented this will become utterly gamebreaking. The tank + ranged area DPS combo will simply make all other ants obsolete.
You do actually know that Formica fusca (as well as the entire Lasius garden/meadow ant genus) has formic acid as well? They just use it more like a shotgun at close range.rakuen0611 said:
The entire Camponotus genus also has formic acid and some of them can spray it over a decent range of multiple centimeters.
Some Nylanderia species (another formicine ant genus) even smear formic acid over their bodies which makes them almost immune to fire ant stings (Nylanderia fulva aka the raspberry crazy ant is currently wreaking havoc in Florida outcompeting even Solenopsis invicta and geminata fire ants).
Formic acid isn't really that special, lots of ants have it - the only special trait the Formica rufa group has is their extended range.
the splash damage or artillery ants are op if the target is holding completely still 
I choose the rapid fire ants cause even Wolf spiders get hit by a few hits and slowed down for the rest of the hits too connect. The damage is almost the same until you pile up all the enemies at an entrance like current meta just so happens to be. I however went for rapid in the missions cause they die too fast by themselves on 2.1 so landing a few hits makes up for that. Plus 2.2 helps a lot for slowing the ladybirds.
IF the rapid fire ants also slowed down enemy ants attackspeed, I think it'd be a lot more balanced, not sure if that is how it is now, But it'd make the choices for the actual colony stages a little more interesting.
I choose the rapid fire ants cause even Wolf spiders get hit by a few hits and slowed down for the rest of the hits too connect. The damage is almost the same until you pile up all the enemies at an entrance like current meta just so happens to be. I however went for rapid in the missions cause they die too fast by themselves on 2.1 so landing a few hits makes up for that. Plus 2.2 helps a lot for slowing the ladybirds. IF the rapid fire ants also slowed down enemy ants attackspeed, I think it'd be a lot more balanced, not sure if that is how it is now, But it'd make the choices for the actual colony stages a little more interesting.