[Suggestion] Underground wall placement

[HofNerd]

With the game in its current form the player can only remove underground walls, not build them.
Having the option to build walls allows for players to adapt and evolve the nest in certain ways. For example, it allows the player to increase the travel distance between the queen and the nest entrance. And the player can fill in small spaces were underground enemies waited to be dug out to complete a fully upgradable chamber.

Placing walls also allows players to block off the nest. A way to combat this could be to make enemies tunnel to the queen should there be no possible path to her.
Simply put, having the option to place walls prevents the need to plan the entire nest at the start.

 

[MikeSlugDisco]

Thanks for the detailed post with the picture to demonstrate. We have been thinking about allowing the player to build walls since we had the idea for the game, and to date we haven't come up with a way to do it that doesn't unbalance the game design or doesn't feel excessively clunky.

Our model of a single point that has to be defended (which we like, and comes from our main inspiration Dungeon Keeper) doesn't lend itself well to allowing the player to create labyrinthine paths to their queen, which makes balancing the levels practically impossible.

 

[pakitane16]

Wall building is fine but I don't like nest blocking. In other RTS, you have plenty of space and direction that the enemy can attack from, so wall building is necessary, and can be worked around. We have only 1 entrance in this game, blocking the entrance means that the nature can whittle you down while the enemy wait inside and vice versa. If wall is possible, I'd prefer maybe a path-checking system that doesn't allow you to build wall when there is no path from the queen to the entrance.

 

[Mr_Ced]

I would like to suggest that building walls takes more time than usual, and is also expensive. It would encourge this as a late game tile improvement, rather than just something to do.

 

[HofNerd]

Thanks for the detailed post with the picture to demonstrate. We have been thinking about allowing the player to build walls since we had the idea for the game, and to date we haven't come up with a way to do it that doesn't unbalance the game design or doesn't feel excessively clunky.

Our model of a single point that has to be defended (which we like, and comes from our main inspiration Dungeon Keeper) doesn't lend itself well to allowing the player to create labyrinthine paths to their queen, which makes balancing the levels practically impossible.

Labyrinthine paths are more of a trade-off for what I've experienced. Yes, enemies take significantly longer to reach the queen. But so do my ants to reach the outside. It is not a good thing especially in early game to have a very long underground path from queen to exit. (I tried to make a similar nest in freeplay before, that one didn't make it. RIP)
For what I've seen you trade foraging potential against defensiveness of the nest. In early game a streight tunnel from queen to exit gives fast foraging, but that tunnel can't be moved in any way after that. In late game the nest has so many ants, the trade to get more defensiveness looks to be generally worth it. (Correct me if I am wrong)
For defensiveness, think about bottlenecks to delay for respawns and opens to swarm with a wave of freshly spawned ants.

 

[antlover19]

player can only remove underground walls, not build them.

I've been having the same thought. Because what if you had to place down sections of wall in a desperate attempt to fend off an attack?

 

[Mr_Ced]

My thoughts are that you eventually die from lack of food, not your queen being killed.

 

[HofNerd]

My thoughts are that you eventually die from lack of food, not your queen being killed.

At the moment there's no food upkeep. When you are completely walled in there is nothing that can kill you, but there also is no way to get new food from outside the nest. So being walled in works both ways.

I have been thinking about ways to have wall placment...
So far I've come across these ideas:

1. Nest invaders only break walls if they can't reach you by any other means. (Rather simple, no annoying math required.)

2. Enemies only break walls if the path to reach you is too long.
The condition to break walls could be: (x * walls + opens < opens)
x * (walls to break for shortest path with walls) + (number of opens alongside wall breaks) < (number of opens without wallbreaks)
x is the 'cost' in open tiles moved for breaking walls.

 

[Scyobi_Empire]

Thanks for the detailed post with the picture to demonstrate. We have been thinking about allowing the player to build walls since we had the idea for the game, and to date we haven't come up with a way to do it that doesn't unbalance the game design or doesn't feel excessively clunky.

Our model of a single point that has to be defended (which we like, and comes from our main inspiration Dungeon Keeper) doesn't lend itself well to allowing the player to create labyrinthine paths to their queen, which makes balancing the levels practically impossible.

I have an idea on how to make it balanced: you can destroy a wall or move a wall. The restrictions can be that there has to be a path to the queen, so no blocking off the queen from the rest of the nest.

 

[MedinB]

I don't like this. You could possibly protect your queen from danger and it would be kinda like cheating. Like in 1.2 you can protect your eggs from the slavemaker ants.

 

[Scyobi_Empire]

I don't like this. You could possibly protect your queen from danger and it would be kinda like cheating. Like in 1.2 you can protect your eggs from the slavemaker ants.

But when the ants die they'll be stuck, letting the slave makers kill your queen. Yes they kill the queen if there isn't many eggs or ants left.